May 2025

Julien Creuzet

A Conversation with Julien Creuzet, featuring Kate Kraczon, by Ricky Lee

Julien Creuzet, © Magasin CNAC. Photo: Pascale Cholette

In the realm of contemporary art, few themes resonate as deeply and universally as water—a force that embodies both life and loss, connection and separation. In the spellbinding exhibition Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon, artist Julian Creuzet, in collaboration with curators Kate Kraczon and Celine Kopp, invites viewers to immerse themselves in a multisensory exploration of water, migration, and the African diaspora. Through a dynamic interplay of sculpture, sound, and dance, Attila cataract (…) transcends traditional artistic boundaries, offering a poetic and open-ended experience that challenges viewers to engage with the work on a deeply personal level.

The exhibition’s enigmatic title, a cascade of repetition, reflects Creuzet’s commitment to fostering multiple interpretations, allowing each viewer to bring their own cultural and emotional context to the experience. Water, as both a literal and metaphorical element, serves as the central thread, weaving together themes of trauma and emancipation, displacement and connection. From the initial presentation at the French Pavillion during the 2024 Venice Biennale to its current iteration at the David Winton Bell Gallery at Brown University, in Providence, Rhode Island, the exhibition has evolved to incorporate new sculptural works that address pressing environmental concerns and migration patterns, further deepening its relevance in today’s world.

Ricky Lee delves into Creuzet’s creative process, the symbolic richness of the exhibition’s themes, and the innovative use of soundscapes and live performance to create an immersive, embodied experience. Through insights from the artist and curator Kraczon, we explore how Attila cataract (…) not only reflects on the past and present but also invites us to reimagine the future of art, identity, and our shared humanity.

Installation view of Julien Creuzet: Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon, 2025, at the David Winton Bell Gallery, Brown University. Image courtesy of The Bell and the artist. Photo: Julia Feathering

“This artwork is poetic, like a painting form, a structural form, a performance form that can be activated everywhere.”

Ricky Lee: The title of the show Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon is very poetic. Can you tell me a little about why you chose this title and if there is any special meaning to the titles that you chose for your shows?

Julien Creuzet: What’s beautiful about poetry is that you can have your own interpretation. And for starters, I would like to return the question to you: What do you feel about the title?

RL: The title is very intriguing. and very beautiful. I think it expresses, from what I understand so far, your practice in general and the themes that you are trying to portray in the work that you do. Am I correct in that assumption?

JC: And you can find yourself inside the title?

RL: I think that every person who reads the title, or sees the show, probably can personalize it and take away from it what they want it to mean.

JC: And my question now is: Do you think it's important then to explain the title? And. if I explain the title, can that maybe stop or hinder the memories that you collect with your imagination?

RL: No. I think it's always interesting to find out what an artist thinks and why they particularly chose a title. I've worked with many artists over the years. and I'm always intrigued to find out why they chose a particular title for their work. You don't have to answer that question. I just thought it was very interesting. It's a very long title and I’d like to get some sort of idea of what your thought process was, why you chose such a long and poetic title. 

JC: Yes, but for me, the title is also a piece, an artwork. 

RL: Oh, okay.

JC: And this artwork is poetic, like a painting form, a structural form. A performance form that can be activated everywhere. And what is interesting with poetry is that we can interiorize and analyze the poetry, you can read the poetry, you can perform the poetry, you can extend the poetry in the duration of reading. And I like what it can provoke inside the body, inside movement. It depends on where you are. You can choose a specific word like Attila. Attila means many things. It depends. If you are in Venice, for example, or in Italy, Attila means one thing. If you are in Martinique, it represents another thing. And if you are in the US, maybe it provokes another type of relation. I like the word cataract. The first origin or definition of this word was the idea of the waterfall and how a waterfall can symbolize the impossibility to see or focus on the molecules of the water or the visibility of the water because it's moving too fast and at the same time, the water relates to the eyes and viewing and when you start to lose your vision. For example, you have a problem with your vision. And I like this idea because art, it’s about how to look, how to feel, how to identify. And, yes, I would like for this title to open many perspectives about art and how we can feel, how we can take a look, how we can question. 

Kate Kraczon: Julien considers the title a poem open to interpretation. All of his titles are poetry and therefore works of art separate from the objects.

Installation view of Julien Creuzet: Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon, 2025, at the David Winton Bell Gallery, Brown University. Image courtesy of The Bell and the artist. Photo: Julia Feathering

RL: You’ve reimagined the exhibition for the Bell, which was originally presented at the French Pavilion during the 60th Venice Biennale last year. In what ways has the show changed?

KK: The exhibition at The Bell preserves the core components of the pavilion, which are the video and sound installations (four videos and six songs), but there are additional sculptures commissioned by The Bell that will tour in the US: six massive steel floor sculptures that were fabricated in Rhode Island and three new hanging sculptures that Julien installed the week of the opening. The latter are created from the straps used by the dancers in Algorithm ocean true blood moves in the Dakar Biennial performance in December 2024. The poles used in the New York performance in 2023 were used by the dancers in the Brown presentation of Algorithm and are also installed in The Bell. There are three new paintings, as well, and two sculptures borrowed from his US galleries. What’s exciting about the project at Brown is how this university allows for the proximity of the performance and the exhibition and moments of exchange. For instance, one of the dancers performed in The Bell an hour before the performance of Algorithm at The Lindemann Performing Arts Center a few blocks away. 

JC:  We created many movements, and we started, for example, a movement specifically in Martinique. with the idea that the pavilion would start in Martinique before going to Venice. What is interesting with an island is the water is around you and your relationship with the water is metaphorical, which means that there are many possibilities. It can be traumatic, it can be the beginning of travel, it can be a port or an airport, like a place for connection. And the Caribbean is a place, for me, where many civilizations of this planet start to connect French, Spanish, Portuguese, Africam, Indian, Chinese and many other places on this planet.  It was really important to start there and then go to Venice. For me, Venice is also an island. 

RL:What prompted you to bring the exhibition to Providence? How does the city and its history, and Brown University’s situation within it, relate to the show’s themes? 

KK: I first encountered Julien’s work in 2018 at the Rennes Biennial, curated by Céline Kopp and Etienne Bernard. Céline and I worked together at the MCA Chicago in 2008 and had been discussing a jointly curated project for over a decade. When I moved to Brown and her to Le Magasin, Grenoble we agreed to collaborate on a major exhibition with Julien that would open in fall 2023 in Grenoble and spring 2024 at Brown. When Julien was offered the French Pavilion and Céline the curator position (alongside co-curator Cindy Sissokho) we evolved the project. I love Julien’s work, but there is a need to contextualize an international artist within Providence and on campus, whether it’s related to Rhode Island’s history or the strength of specific research areas at Brown. All of this was aligned for Julien given the work's relationship to the Black Atlantic and Rhode Island’s long history within the triangulation between the Caribbean and Africa that is documented in Brown’s Slavery and Justice Report. 

Installation view of Julien Creuzet, Distant, the oral songs of youth buried, in the DNA of the bones, a little remnant, a little pain, we remember when walking slowly in the field of old ravaging reeds. the smell is imprinted in the most ancestral dreams, 2020 (right) from Julien Creuzet: Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon, 2025, at the David Winton Bell Gallery, Brown University. Image courtesy of The Bell and the artist. Photo: Julia Feathering

RL: In your language about Attila cataract (…) you refer to “Providence's centrality within the Black Atlantic. Could you elaborate on the concept of the Black Atlantic? 

KK: Julien and I are both referencing the immense influence of Paul Gilroy’s The Black Atlantic: Modernity and Double Consciousness (1993). The short passage from that book that was chosen for the reader produced for the French Pavilion included: “It should be emphasized that ships were the living means by which the points within the Atlantic world were joined. They were mobile elements that stood for the shifting spaces in between the fixed places that they connected.” Providence was a fixed place connected, by ship, to fixed places within the Caribbean, Africa, and Europe, including ports within the Mediterranean, such as Venice. 

JC: In my point of view, every human should be concerned and every human on this planet needs to question himself about the Black Atlantic. 

RL: Could you describe the sculptures that were commissioned specifically for this iteration of the show and how they are integrated into the architecture of the Bell? 

KK: Six massive steel floor sculptures commissioned for The Bell are installed across the List Lobby and into the gallery, mercurial amalgams of tropical foliage and animals silhouetted and superimposed onto islands of layered meaning and metaphor. Shimmering under the light of four massive projection screens, these metal objects create an aquatic visual presence that forces contact with a ground material separate from the tile and painted cement floors of the galleries. To enter into the List Art Building and The Bell, one must walk across and through these sculptures, which shift slightly based on angle and approach. The installation insists on a tactile relationship with viewers, one that is echoed in the music that emanates from The Bell and List Lobby and flows into the interstitial social spaces of the building. 

The Philip Johnson designed List Art Building is also a brutalist cement structure that incorporates embedded gridding across the outside of the building and was commissioned at a time when the architect was interested in (and collecting) work by Agnes Martin. The wooden ceiling grid and gridded tiled floor of the List Lobby Gallery is disrupted by Julien’s morphing forms even as they nod to the work of minimalist artists like Carl Andre.

Installation view of Julien Creuzet: Attila cataract your source at the feet of the green peaks will end up in the great sea blue abyss we drowned in the tidal tears of the moon, 2025, at the David Winton Bell Gallery, Brown University. Image courtesy of The Bell and the artist. Photo: Julia Feathering

RL: What part does sound, music and performance play in Attila cataract (…). 

KK: Julien views the music he produces for his installations as the base on which the rest of the work is created. 

JC: What is interesting with sound and movement is you can tell many secrets directly. For example, with gesture you can tell the truth, and, at the same time, it is another type of language. 

RL: How would you describe Julien’s work and practice? 

KK: Julien’s practice encompasses moving image, dance, poetry, and sound, tethered by a sculptural materiality that hovers between the organic and inorganic. Plastic and natural fiber nets, ropes, and wires are woven into forms that both allude to and evade familiarity, connecting across gallery spaces in bold, nearly toxic colors. This work is an act of accretion, a building of layers in both the physical construction of the objects and the archipelagic installation design. The sonic dimensions are equally dense, drawing from histories of jazz and other musical forms of the African diaspora. Debris collected from the streets of Paris and beyond is recontextualized to reference his intimate relationship with the sea and his Martinician heritage. The country’s precarity within the global climate crises and the centrality of postcoloniality and Blackness propel Crozet’s work into a US-based conversation where it is both an urgent and necessary contribution. 

RL: What responses do you anticipate from audiences who view the show? 

KK: A good friend (and brilliant curator) brought her six-year-old daughter to the opening, and her daughter had an unexpected emotional response to the installation. She was moved to tears by the videos and the music and tactility of the objects. My friend and her daughter had a long conversation about how art could be both beautiful and sad, and about the relationship between humans and animals. Julien’s work allows that kind of entry without knowing the historical, artistic, and academic lineage of his practice; a young child was able to affectively experience the work in a manner quite similar to my emotional response to the installation. The experience at The Bell / BAI is quite different from the Venice Pavillion presentation. 

RL: Kate, what are some of the upcoming projects that you are curating for The Bell? 

KK: Thea Quiray Tagle, The Bell / Brown Arts Institute Associate Curator, is opening a major exhibition with Diné artist Eric-Paul Riege this fall titled ojo|-|ólǫ́, which brings together Riege’s textile, sculpture, sound, video, and performance practices. A trained weaver, Riege combines customary Diné practices with contemporary cultural forms to produce large, soft sculptures and weavings that reference Diné mythology, the history of Euro-American trading posts in the Navajo Nation, and the notion of “authenticity” as a value marker of Indigenous art and craft. The exhibition, the artist’s largest solo presentation to date, is based on Riege’s material research and engagement with the Navajo collections held by Brown’s Haffenreffer Museum of Anthropology and the University of Washington’s Burke Museum of Natural History and Culture. Unfolding within and across university campus museums, Riege’s exhibition interrogates the histories of knowledge production embedded in these institutions. The exhibition will be on view at The Bell from September 3 - December 7, 2025, and will travel with a new iteration opening at the Henry Art Gallery at the University of Washington from March 15 - August 30, 2026. 

RL: Julien, if you had to choose one word to describe your work in general, what would that word be?

JC: Beauty.

Julien Creuzet (b. 1986, Le Blanc Mesnil, France, lives Paris) represented France at the 60th Venice Biennale (2024) and has had solo exhibitions at Le Magasin Centre National D’Art Contemporain, Grenoble France (2023); Performa Biennial, New York (2023); LUMA, Zürich, Switzerland (2023); LUMA, Arles, France (2022); the Camden Art Centre, London, UK (2022); Centre Pompidou, Paris, France (2021); Palais De Tokyo, Paris, France (2019); CAN Centre d’Art Neuchâtel, Neuchâtel, Switzerland (2019); Fondation d’Entreprise Ricard, Paris, France (2018); and Bétonsalon, Paris, France (2018). He is included in the collections of the Kadist Art Foundation, Centre Pompidou, Fondation Villa Datris, Fondation d ’entreprise Galeries Lafayette, Carré d’Art-Musée d’art contemporain, Frac Normandie Rouen, Frac Normandie Caen, Frac Grand Large - Hauts-de-France, Frac des Pays de la Loire, Frac Île-de France, Frac Aquitaine, and FRAC. Recently, Creuzet participated in the 35ª Bienal de São Paulo, São Paulo (2023); 12th Liverpool Biennial (2023); Momenta Biennale de L’image (2021); Frestas Triennial Sao Paolo (2021); Manifesta 13 (2020); the 12th Gwangju Biennale (2018); the 6th Rennes Biennale (2018); FIAC (2018); the 11th Biennale Africaine de la Photographie (2017); the 14th Lyon Biennale of Contemporary Art (2017); and the Festival Hors Piste at the Centre Pompidou (2017). Creuzet is the recipient of the 2021 BMW Art Journey Award and the 2019 Camden Arts Centre Emerging Artist Prize at Frieze.

Kate Kraczon is the Director of Exhibitions and Chief Curator of the Brown Arts Institute (BAI) / David Winton Bell Gallery (The Bell) at Brown University. Joining Brown in fall 2019 as Curator, Kraczon now oversees the Brown Arts Institute’s exhibition program, which includes The Bell and its collection of over 7,000 works in List Art Center, the Cohen Gallery in the Granoff Center for the Creative Arts, and Brown’s robust Public Art program. As a member of the BAI leadership team, Kraczon builds programs across campus and within the Lindemann Performing Arts Center. Kraczon is also involved in many aspects of the BAI’s academic program. Since joining the BAI, Kraczon has curated solo exhibitions with artists such as Franklin Williams, Elisabeth Subrin, Savannah Knoop, Jules Gimbrone, Hartman Deetz, and a two-person exhibition with Harry Gould Harvey IV and Faith Wilding (all 2021). Upcoming projects include solo projects with Julien Creuzet and a newly commissioned installation with Ruanne Abou-Rahme and Basel Abbas (co-curated with Thea Quiray Tagle).